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Talk:Severus Snape
* Archive 1 * Archive 2 * Archive 3 Random Quote Block People's thoughts on changing over to a random quote choice at the top instead of having constant back and forth edits over the "best" quote to display? Should offer a more rounded view of the character instead of a single interpretation, although everyone can make sure their favorite quote is included. Or does this approach seem "extreme"? :That seems rather extreme. It's just easier to revert the edits. Also, you really need to remember to sign your talkpage posts, it's getting annoying adding the unsigned template on your posts. --''Saju '' 18:32, April 26, 2016 (UTC) :: It's not a matter of reverting - there is no "right" quote or "best" version so why not have a way to display the various quotes that everyone wants to include? How is this approach extreme again? Sorry for forgetting to sign my talk posts - I will work on remembering (but feel free not to fix so you're not annoyed) --Ironyak1 (talk) 18:45, April 26, 2016 (UTC) :: Bumping this - any additional thoughts or concerns about using a block to allow for randomized quotes to be displayed for Snape? --Ironyak1 (talk) 06:19, May 3, 2016 (UTC) :::Given there has been no explanation of the original push-back against this change, nor has there been any objection from the notified admins, I am going to re-implement this feature to allow for randomized top quotes. I've added a comment line to the section explaining how to add additional quotes. This should provide a test case for one possible solution for very quotable characters other than constant editing of the "best" or favorite top quote. Cheers --Ironyak1 (talk) 18:57, May 6, 2016 (UTC) ::::Okay, so I'm not allowed to go around changing things without consensus, but other people can do it? Double standards are great. ::::This is not going to help the wiki, it is just going to result in the unnecessary addition of completely unwanted quotes and clog the top of the page for no gain at all. --''Saju '' 19:00, May 6, 2016 (UTC) :::::I'll let you explain what changes you wanted to make without consensus, but I don't think they had to do with this page. As for clogging the top of page (for editing), these quotes could be moved off onto a separate "Snape-Quotes" template to create a single line here, but many possible quotes behind the scenes. That sounds like a good approach in general so the feedback is appreciated. Again, the gain is that many valuable quotes can be displayed without the back and forth edits over the "best" one. I'd like to let it stay for a few days to gather other input, but then can transfer over to the template as needed. --Ironyak1 (talk) 19:18, May 6, 2016 (UTC) ::::::Sorry that I haven't had time to look into this over the last couple of days. This proposal involves a relatively minor change to an article, as opposed to a major change to established policy or procedure, and there isn't (at least to my recollection) a pre-existing consensus regarding which quote to feature at the top of the article. So this isn't a case that really necessitates nailing down a clear consensus before taking any action. But I still would've given at least a week for people to weigh in before implementing the proposal. It isn't really the type of matter that requires a prompt response in my mind. ::::::I don't have a strong opinion regarding the quote randomizer. But I tend to favour a "less is more" approach, so instead of allowing people to add as many quotes as they like to it, I think we ought to hold a vote to winnow it down to three or four select quotes. I know the "always" and "look at me" quotes are fan favourites, but plucked out of the context of their respective scenes, they don't make much sense, much less carry an emotional impact. I think headline quotes should be capable of standing on their own, requiring little or no explanation to be understood. ★ Starstuff (Owl me!) 00:41, May 7, 2016 (UTC) :::::::Hey Starstuff - If you look at the history of this conversation, I originally made this single change to this single article on 26 Apr (10 days ago) and was, and still am, a bit surprised by the push-back or that it requires Admin attention. While I agree that the implementation timing is non-critical, I also think there should be some consensus on a sufficient wait time for responses so that edits don't just fall off the map. In the future for any pending issues, I thinking of bumping and canvasing opinions after a few days, then waiting 7+ days for any feedback (as this aligns with voting timelines) before moving forward (or not). Does this seems like a reasonable approach to you? :::::::As for the quotes, I would like to suggest that the total number be ten, as in the top ten. I think that for major characters (especially Snape and Dumbledore), there are easily several, strong, stand-alone quotes, but agree that there should be a limit. By moving these off into a template, the several quotes won't get in the way of editing the main article, and would make it a little more difficult to edit for new users (or could even be under protection separate from the article). However, given the general lack of site wide participation, it seems difficult to go through a discussion & voting procedure each time someone argues for changes, but would suggest allowing selected quotes to develop more naturally based on the efforts of those who are interested enough to sort out how they work. Just my 2 (or more ;) cents. Cheers --Ironyak1 (talk) 03:49, May 7, 2016 (UTC) Suicidal? : Snape was devastated by Lily's death, sinking into a suicidal depression that seemingly lasted the rest of his life. I feel that this a very poor conjencture on the part of the author of this sentence. Suicidal? Surely, needed. Mcepl (talk) 10:19, April 26, 2017 (UTC) : Though it's conjecteure, it's not a ‘poor’ one. : Snape sinking himself into his unbelievably dangerous spywork could be seen as him losing the will to live, and only carrying on in his duties to Lily's memories. And there's the fact that he's constantly trying to take the super-cursed Defence Professorship — considering what he has to say about Kappas, he's actually a rubbish teacher, and this doesn't help his cover of barely-reformed former Dark Wizard, so why does he want the job? Answer: because he secretly hopes the curse will get him and he will be set free. : Again, there's no doubt that this is all just conjecture and interpretation; removing such a clear-cut sentence from the article was a right call. But it's a very defendable position to assert Snape was suicidal, at least somewhat. As for depression, practically the first word you'd use to describe the man is "gloomy" (right after "unpleasant" and "terrifying"), so it's not much of a leap. Scrooge MacDuck (talk) 21:06, May 28, 2018 (UTC) Height Should it say that Snape is shorter than 5'9.5, as it says in chapter 15 of the Order of the Phoenix that Sirius is "rather taller than snape", and it says on Sirius' page that he is 5'9.5". This isn't incredibly important but I just noticed it for some reason. Grace, Sovereign, M (message,talk) 20:04, September 27, 2017 (UTC) Boggart (cont'd) Based on Rowling's interview, and the fact that Snape seemed himself while around Voldemort, and that Rowling's word takes precendece against a liscenced video game, doesn't this information sufficiently imply that Lily's corpse is his Boggart, given that his greatest fear is his greatest love being torn away from him, as demonstrated in DHP2 when he weeped over Lily? I don't understand why we have to wait for a confirmation when there's more than enough sufficient evidence already, even if we have to say in parenthesis (implied) Oerk (talk) 23:05, August 13, 2019 (UTC) : I'm unfamiliar with the interview of which you speak, but clearly "weeping over the love of his life dying" isn't the same thing as "his greatest fear being the love of his life being torn from him". I'm fairly sure Harry would weep if Ginny died, yet his Boggart isn't Ginny's corpse. : Furthermore, while it's perhaps plausible that Snape's greatest fear prior to 1981 was Lily dying, it wouldn't make any sense for it to remain so when Lily is already dead. It's no longer something he fears, it something he knows for a fact to have happened. If you are desperate for a Lily-related post-1981 Boggart, about the only thing that would make sense would be some variation of "Lily's ghost telling him she will never forgive him". : But I'm not buying the idea that the fact that Snape remains cool and collected around the Dark Lord disproves his (Voldemort) being his (Snape's) greatest fear. As an Occlumens, a double-agent and a Slytherin, it goes without saying that one of his greatest skills must be one hell of a pokerface. And it's not as though seeing their greatest fear will turn anyone into a gibbering neurotic wreck as you seem to suppose. Kind of the point of the Boggart lesson in PoA is for the kids to learn to face their fear and rationalize it away. An adult with years of practice and, again, whose job was "spy", could definitely manage good self-control in the face of their fear if they met him every day. --Scrooge MacDuck (talk) 23:17, August 13, 2019 (UTC) Well, I think that after his realization that Lily essentially meant the world to him, that it was more than just your average everday love. For Snape it was all-consuming, as it pretty much influenced how the rest of his life turned out, becoming an agent of Dumbledore to protect her legacy. Furthermore, upon re-reading the interview, as what he sees in the Mirror of Erised is related to the Boggart, I see that as icing on the cake and confirms it for sure. At any rate, here's the interview: http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2007/0720-bluepeter.html Oerk (talk) 23:24, August 13, 2019 (UTC) : Okay, this rather proves that the Boggart has something to do with Lily and isn't Voldemort. Well-spotted. I still don't think it makes any sense for it to be "Lily's corpse" per se, though, as I said. Lily dead isn't something he fears, it's something he knows all too well has already happened. --Scrooge MacDuck (talk) 23:28, August 13, 2019 (UTC) :: Dumbledore's boggart was his sister's corpse. - Pjayswitch (talk) 09:07, August 14, 2019 (UTC) ::: That is absurd. Maybe it's canonical (source, please?), but it's nevertheless absurd. And Rowling making a logical blunder once shouldn't cause us to infer even more nonsense from that one ill-thought-out bit of canon. --Scrooge MacDuck (talk) 09:17, August 14, 2019 (UTC) ::::The source is linked in Dumbledore's article - specifically in his infobox in the Boggart section. I'm not saying we should say that Snape's Boggart was Lily's corpse... Indeed Rowling herself says she doesn't know what it was... It's implied but nothing more. We can say that the Lego video game is once again wrong, but that's about it. And it's not absurd at all. To Dumbledore the body represents the fact that he failed to protect her through his own selfishness, and, more importantly the possibility that he may well have struck the blow that killed her. That was the thing he feared above all else, and the Boggart is a manifestation of that. - Pjayswitch (talk) 11:22, August 14, 2019 (UTC) ::::: But why can't the corpse of someone you know to be dead be your fear? For Dumbledore and Snape, their loss caused great pain and the thought of seeing it in your head again and again can be something you fear. It's form of trauma and torture, especially when you feel responsible for what happened. The very thought you could actually physically see it again in your Boggart would be sickening. You have to consider someone's mental health in things like this. Just because you saw it once, it doesn't mean you want to see it again and in a world of Boggarts, you know it's possible because it's worth fearing. ::::: Anyway, I think it's a given his Boggart wasn't Tom Riddle. I have never been in favour of using the LEGO game anyway, especially where Boggarts are concerned because it's too generic. You could just put "Connected to his vision in the Mirror of Erised", or something like that because that's what Rowling had to say and her word is better than a LEGO game. - Kates39 (talk) 12:33, August 14, 2019 (UTC) I did see this discussion and its subsequent edit, and to affirm that Snape's Boggart assumed the form of the corpse of Lily Evans is purely speculative, even though it is possible. This is not confirmed in any source, nor has this been told by J.K. Rowling. Regardless of my views, canon rules do state that video games must be used as acceptable sources when no other information is present. Unless Rowling states otherwise, this should not be changed. Thanks - User:RedWizard98